• Facebook
  • Instagram
  • Pinterest
  • Snapchat
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

MsMarmiteLover

  • Food
    • Recipes
    • Vegetarian
    • Vegan
  • Travel
    • France
    • Italy
    • Spain
    • UK
  • Wine
  • Gardens
  • Supperclubs/Events
  • About
    • Press
    • Books
  • Shop
    • Cart

Adventures in sourdough, travels with my mother

June 28, 2013 26 Comments Filed Under: Food, Recipes, Uncategorized

My no knead sourdough bread has a better structure

I’ve been making sourdough bread, pretty regularly, like a good little foodie, for about six months now. I’ll be frank, it’s not perfect. It’s got the taste, the crumb, the crust but the loaves are still a bit, well, flat. I’ve got a problem with structure.
Here is what I’ve learnt in my sourdough career so far:

  • The starter is also called the ‘mother’. I’m so glad to hear that there is a goddess culture within the food world. 
  • Make the starter with rye flour, it takes about five days initially. I learnt this from Dan Lepard.
  • If you bake a loaf every day, refresh the starter every day. What does this mean? Keep your starter in a jar and every day, empty out enough of it (say 2/3rds) to leave room enough to add one cup flour (I alternate rye and strong white) and one cup water. 
This is alive!
  • A starter is alive and kicking if it froths up in the hours after you have fed it.
  • Texture of starter: some people have thick gloopy starters and some people have thin ones. Take that into account when you are thinking of ‘hydration’ or how much water to put in your dough.
  • Once you’ve got your starter to a stable state, you can keep it in the fridge and ‘refresh it’ every few days if you don’t bake every day.
  • A recently refreshed starter gives you a better structured loaf.
  • If I’ve recently refreshed the starter, I use a cup of what I would usually throw away, to start my loaf.
  • I don’t usually use cups to measure, but I’ve found that I do with making bread. I keep one in the flour sack. Use the same cup for everything, that way you are working with ratio not measurements. 
  • I fill a cup with flour loosely, then level it off. If you are using cups, make sure you use the same way of filling it each time. Otherwise one cup could be tightly packed, the next loosely and the amount of flour in your cup could vary by 50g easily.
  • If you are embarking on the sourdough journey, I recommend that you order some large sacks of flour from Shipton Mill. They deliver and it works out a great deal cheaper than constantly buying small bags of flour. I have a 16 kilo sack of strong white flour. 
  • If you live near a traditional mill, then get flour from them. Support local farmers and millers and you’ll get a more interesting, better loaf.
  • Going on holiday: unlike Sweden we don’t have a starter hotel. So I just keep it in the fridge with clingfilm over the top of the jar. When I was away for a month, I checked on it and even though it smelt funny, with the addition of a little flour and water, it sprung back into life. 
  • Starters are remarkably strong and rarely die. When it has gone green though, I do draw the line and chuck it.
  • The oldest starter in the UK, around 300 years old, comes from Italy and lives at Franco Manca pizzeria in Brixton. If you ask nicely they will give you a bit.
  • Hydration is the bakers favourite word. What is it? It’s the ratio of water you combine with the flour. For instance my starter is refreshed with 100% hydration, ie: one cup flour, one cup water.
  • The thinking is that the more hydration, the stickier the dough, the more moisture, with a more open crumb structure, in your final bread. A good sourdough loaf lasts days, with no additives or e numbers whatsoever.
  • Hydration does make bread dough difficult to handle however which is probably one of the reasons that No Knead breads have become popular
  • Wet your hands with water and your dough shouldn’t stick when handling if you are kneading. I learnt this from Jane Mason at Virtuous Bread.
  • The amount of water in a dough depends on the weather, your flour, a million things. So learn as you go, what your dough should feel like. Eventually you won’t need a recipe.
  • Folding and tucking: when your dough is proving, every few hours, pull the dough together carefully by stretching one side from the bottom over to the other side. You are not pummeling it down, you are merely strengthening the structure. I learnt this from Richard Bertinet.
  • I often overproof my dough, because I forget about it. You can tell when this happens as your dough gets really big, then you go back and it’s burst and sunk. Try not to do this, it weakens the life in your loaf. It’s probably why I don’t have a good structure.
  • Those pretty birch wood bannetons are a nightmare! The dough always sticks, I’ve ruined so many loaves this way. I’ve tried painting it with layers of cornflour and water. The dough stuck. I’ve tried to flour it heavily and dig the flour into each groove. The dough stuck. 
  • Keep one of your tea towels just for proving dough: So I’ve given up on the banneton by itself and now line it with a heavily floured favourite tea towel. I’m using the same tea towel each time, never washing it, because the tea towel accrues cultures and flavour which add to your bread dough. Your loaf still gets the banneton pattern through the tea towel. This I learnt from Rachelle Blondel
  • Scoring: every baker has a signature design slashing on top of their bread. They all have their own special ‘lame’ even (French for blade). I’m rubbish at remembering to slash, at the actual slashing. But right now I just let the loaf crack open organically. However, you are supposed to control this by cutting the top of the loaf, just before it goes in the oven, with say a square or a cross.
  • Baking: in a domestic oven is not going to produce the results you get in a commercial bakery. Domestic ovens don’t get hot or steamy enough, to give your loaf a fantastic crust.
  • I’m baking in an Aga, so I use a slightly floured (with flour or cornmeal) peel (that long handled ‘spade’ you see in pizzerias) and bake on the floor of the hottest oven.
  • To get a crust you can spray the oven with water as you put in the loaf.
  • But the easiest is to use a ‘dutch oven’, in other words, a heavy cast iron Le Creuset type pot which has a lid. This ensures that you have a good shape to your loaf. 
  • Oven spring: you will see websites talk about this, it’s very desirable. It’s the initial rising that you get with your loaf once it is put in the oven. Much of the rising takes place in the first 5 minutes.
  • One of the best websites on sourdough that you can read is written by a North London suburban housewife from Portugal. It’s called Azelia’s Kitchen. She’s clearly bonkers obsessional in the kind of foodie geek way that I adore. I love her site.


So what I’ve ended up with, finally, is a mongrel No Knead Sourdough Bread recipe.  This is the only way I can get the bread to retain a lovely shape.
This recipe will keep me going until I manage to make a successful solely sourdough loaf.

1 cup recently refreshed (in the last 5/6 hours) starter
3 cups strong white flour
1 cup to 1.5 cups of water
1 tablespoon of sea salt
1/4 teaspoon of quick acting yeast.

Mix this roughly together in a bowl. Cover with clingfilm and leave for 8 to 12 hours to rise slowly. If it’s a hot day, put it in the fridge.
Transfer it to the banneton with the heavily floured tea towel, folding and tucking as you go. Leave for one hour.
Heat up your cast iron pot for at least 15 minutes.
Then tip the dough, trying not to catch it on the side, into the pot.
Put the lid on and bake on the hottest setting you have for 30 minutes.
Then take the lid off and bake for another 15 minutes.
Take out the cast iron pot and tip the loaf onto a grill to cool.

If you want to add flavouring, say olives or cheese, or raisins and nuts, put it in the initial dough.

Further reading: Michael Pollan’s Cooked, which details Michael’s adventures with sourdough in a very accessible and enjoyable way.

Recent posts

Air Fryer recipe: aubergine sticks with yoghurt, tahini sauce

June 20, 2022

A dingle in Donegal: seven-day family trip discovering my Irish roots

June 12, 2022

silver barfi pic: Kerstin Rodgers

Platinum Jubilee recipes

June 3, 2022

Previous Post: « Ten great places to eat in Copenhagen
Next Post: Summer recipe: blueberry soup with forest fruits sorbet »

Reader Interactions

Comments

  1. Paula/Tim

    June 28, 2013 at 10:50 am

    A great post!

    Dusting the banneton and dough with rye flour is meant to be better at preventing the dough from sticking, and it usually works.

    For more all about my mother, see:
    http://www.wantonflavours.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/my-sourdough-hell.html

    Happy baking

    Tim

    Reply
    • Kerstin Rodgers

      June 28, 2013 at 3:32 pm

      Thanks Tim, will check out your blog. Rye didn't work for me either…

      Reply
  2. tempsperdu

    June 28, 2013 at 11:26 am

    That's interesting: your recipe is very close to the method I have come to after trial and error (I'm an Aga cooker too). I use a piece of a recent loaf as starter (as I have a habit of killing the mother…) topped up with a little dried yeast. But because I often over-prove, so that the loaf collapses when it is tipped into the Le Creuset, I have taken to proving it in a cold pot, and then putting the whole into the Aga. It doesn't seem to rise any less. If I'm not using a lidded pot, I often throw a few ice cubes into the Aga to help the rise. I don't know if it works, but it is quite fun to do…

    Reply
    • Kerstin Rodgers

      June 28, 2013 at 3:33 pm

      Ah ok, I'll try that too! Great to hear from another Aga cooker! 😉

      Reply
  3. David King

    June 28, 2013 at 11:37 am

    Been making sourdough for nearly 3 months.

    Had a couple of early fails, including when the loaf hurled itself out of the basket and deflated on the baking tray. Next time it stuck to the tea towel in the basket.

    My bread all seems to lose shape unless I use a loaf tin, so my best sourdough today was in a baking paper-lined cake tin.

    Not sure if my doughs are too wet or under-kneaded (the Kenwood exploded 6 months ago, so it's all by hand these days), but doing a bread course in August to check my technique.

    David, Taste Wolverhampton
    Food & Drink on the Radio

    Reply
  4. Kerstin Rodgers

    June 28, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    David, please let me know any techniques that would be helpful. All the pro bakers go on about hydration, but that requires a certain amount of skill and experience to handle I think. It can also be the cause of my flat loaves, I read recently.

    Reply
  5. CellarDoor

    June 29, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    Beautiful post mother, love the pics xx

    Reply
    • Kerstin Rodgers

      July 1, 2013 at 1:12 pm

      Are you going to try bread making this summer Siennapops?

      Reply
  6. Sarah Moore

    June 30, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    Ditch the tea towel and use rice flour on your banneton. Trust me.

    Reply
    • Kerstin Rodgers

      July 1, 2013 at 1:13 pm

      Ok, I will, but if I have another stuck ruined dough on my hands, it's entirely your responsibility. No pressure though. 🙂

      Reply
    • Aj

      July 5, 2013 at 9:05 pm

      Hi Sarah and Kerstin, so this evening I stopped off and bought a bag of rice flour, gave the basket a good covering and…. the dough dropped out with a mighty thump…. I may have gone a bit dried with my loaf but it was very different from my wednesday loaf. Cheers Aj

      Reply
    • Kerstin Rodgers

      July 7, 2013 at 7:22 am

      HI AJ, thanks for getting back to me (us). Ok I'm now convinced and will risk my next loaf! x

      Reply
  7. Lianne Marie Mease

    July 3, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    I put a dish of water into the oven to keep it steamy whilst it cooks and that works well for me

    Reply
    • Kerstin Rodgers

      July 5, 2013 at 8:38 am

      Yes that's a good trick for getting a crust….

      Reply
  8. Aj

    July 4, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Hi, lovely post. We're pretty much on the same part of the learning curve… last night my dough stuck something awful to my cane basket… it tasted fine just did not have a good look…
    Aj

    Reply
    • Kerstin Rodgers

      July 5, 2013 at 8:40 am

      Yes drives me crazy…but the tea towel thing is nice as it gets impregnated with wild yeasts. Best not to use a fluffy one though

      Reply
  9. JOC

    July 5, 2013 at 7:34 am

    I also use the rice flour system – but with my rye loaves I use baking paper as it's easier to lift into my clay pot
    Jan

    Reply
    • Kerstin Rodgers

      July 5, 2013 at 8:40 am

      You bake in a clay pot, how lovely!

      Reply
  10. momsav

    July 5, 2013 at 10:11 pm

    Greetings!
    I use the method outlined in the book 'Urban Homestead' by Kelly Coyne and Erik Knutzen. I haven't had many problems. I have had a blow out of the bread, but not out of the pan. It's all been wonderful, edible and an enjoyable process. I use a cookie sheet with corn flour, water in the bottom of the oven and a flour encrusted towel in the bottom of a bowl. I need no frills and this system is perfect for me!

    Reply
    • Kerstin Rodgers

      July 7, 2013 at 7:23 am

      Hi momsav,
      Like the sound of that book, I'm into homesteading. Thanks for telling us about your bread making…

      Reply
  11. Wendy B

    July 5, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    I have been making sourdough for about 5 years, and as we are a Military family my starter has traveled all over the country with us. When I first started making sourdough I had the same issues, flat dense loaves blah. Then someone suggested making the starter a bit more gutsy. I now have my sourdough starter thicker and this really changed the texture of the bread, as did using exact measurements. I use 200 starter, to 700 grams flour and 375 grams water (yes I measure the weight of water) salt and a wee glug of olive oil, makes a pretty good loaf.

    Reply
    • Kerstin Rodgers

      July 7, 2013 at 7:25 am

      Hi Wendy,
      Ok that is really useful…will thicken up my starter. Maybe make it 80% hydration. Thanks for giving us the measurements for your loaves too!

      Reply
  12. Little CookingTips

    July 9, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Such a beautiful piece…With amazing photos. Congratulations.
    Thank you for sharing it with us.

    Reply
    • Kerstin Rodgers

      July 18, 2013 at 7:17 am

      You are welcome !

      Reply
  13. Rachael Fowler

    July 17, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    This is such a great blog!!! Really makes me hungry just reading and looking at the pictures : ) I recently baked my first loaf of bread and it was incredible!!! I used a starter my friend told me about. It's from Sourdough's International and now I have to spread the word! I loved it. Definitely going to order more when it comes the time.

    Reply
  14. Kerstin Rodgers

    July 18, 2013 at 7:19 am

    Hi Rachael, thank you!
    This place? http://www.sourdo.com
    Interesting…

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Recipe Rating




Primary Sidebar

MsMarmiteLover aka Kerstin Rodgers.

Chef, photographer, author, journalist, blogger. Pioneer of the supperclub movement.

This is my food and travel blog, with recipes, reviews and travel stories. I also stray into politics, feminism, gardening.

Subscribe to my mailing list

msmarmitelover

Kerstin Rodgers/MsMarmiteLover
My piece in the @hamandhigh about the 3 day @heat My piece in the @hamandhigh about the  3 day @heathostile training course. Incredibly interesting & challenging. Link: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/things-to-do/hostile-environment-training-9037980 to read more #hostileenvironmenttraining
Supper club dishes from Saturday: pickled beetroot Supper club dishes from Saturday: pickled beetroot eggs, cheeseboard, stracciatella & cucumber, tomato/strawberry/peashoot salad with real balsamic & spruce oil, home cured dill gravlax, smoked salmon, homemade sourdough crisp bread, potato salad with wild fennel & lots more! #supperclub #midsummer #eattherainbow (miss you @linnsoederstroem)
Last nights supper club. My first supper club in 2 Last nights supper club. My first supper club in 2 years was great fun. I’m pleased with my food, the guests were lovely, it looked magical in the garden. But the weather! I even had to bring my duvets from the bedroom out. They looked like refugees. But this brought even more laughter! Next event September
My first supperclub in two years will take place t My first supperclub in two years will take place this Saturday 18th June starting at 7.30pm. Tickets are £50 byo you can book here: https://msmarmitelover.com/product/midsommar-supper-club there are still a few places left. Pescetarian menu. Scandi and botanical influences. #gettingbackonmyfeet #postpandemic #smallbusinesses #supperclub #london
I recently completed the 3 day @heathostile train I recently completed the 3 day  @heathostile training course. On the last day I was kidnapped by ex-special forces for a few hours & learnt how to deal with compliance training & a hostile environment. It was one of the most interesting experiences of my life. 3 intense days of combat first aid, navigation & how to survive in a war zone. I handled short, long guns, mortars, grenades, bullets, and tourniquet & bandaged an amputee. I learnt where to sit in a car, where to hide from a bullet, where to protect myself if in a car. It was brilliant. Highly recommended for any journalists, photographers, cameramen, charity workers, paramedics going into any difficult environment say a disaster or war. The stories from the tutors & the other participants were so interesting. My piece on it out soon. Book a course: https://hostile-environment.co.uk/  They also do jungle & desert training. I’d love to join the Antarctic expedition. Anyway that’s me hooded in the front. #adventures #het #hostileenvironmenttraining #experiences #travel
Bundoran beach, Donegal. I spent a week knocking o Bundoran beach, Donegal. I spent a week knocking on doors, going to libraries, searching through graveyards for my Irish forebears. It’s really hard to find information prior to 1850. I found this in last years trip to Arbroath in Scotland. Headstones wear out, records are lost or burnt in a fire, everybody has the same name and are known by nicknames, successive children have the same first name, that usually means they died and the next one is called by the same thing. Women did have children out of wedlock, and people remarried more often than you’d think, plus families fall out & never see each other again. I learnt that my Irish great grandfather michael went to Glasgow & met a woman who came from a similar place: somewhere wild & beautiful by the sea. Then they and their children came to london. Chasing the work & the money always. Politics and economics matter for they push people around from rural to city. And now we rodgers are Londoners. #ireland #scotland #family #travel #roots
How some of us celebrate the Queen’s jubilee! My How some of us celebrate the Queen’s jubilee! My sister & a random Irishman come for the Rory Gallagher festival in ballyshannon. Sis has pulled already!  #getyourcoat #sexpistols #ballyshannon #rorygallagherfestival #ireland
Tullaghan, county Leitrim, Donegal, where my grea Tullaghan, county Leitrim, Donegal,  where my great great grandfather john Rodgers was a postman, then a tailor, then a pawnbroker. #irishheritage #donegal #myancestry #irish #rodgers #travel
I’ve taken down the previous post as it’s poor I’ve taken down the previous post as it’s poor timing considering what’s happened over the last 24 hours. Being British I’ve not grown up around guns. It’s interesting to be on this course and find out more about the reality of them, although my focus is learning the ‘golden triangle’ of first aid, communications and navigation. But at the same time It’s depressing how in America nothing will ever change regarding gun law. RIP.
Me as a punk. #pinkhair @caplanmelissa Me as a punk. #pinkhair @caplanmelissa
Sniffin’ glue: Me n @Jaybladesmbe at the Loctite Sniffin’ glue: Me n @Jaybladesmbe at the Loctite pop up yesterday. I’m all about repairing and upcycling my brocante finds: this time a beautiful pale wood lamp shade stand which had broken off at the bottom. I’m going to rewire it with 2 core sky blue twisted fabric wire, pop on my hand sewn pleated lampshade I learnt to do @workshopminerva and it shall be beautiful. Don’t chuck out your chintz: repair it! #therepairshop #selfie #interiors #popup
in June I’m having my first supper club in two y in June I’m having my first supper club in two years: here is the link to book: https://msmarmitelover.com/product/midsommar-supper-club £50 18th June  Saturday night. Byo.
#chelseaflower coming up. Last year I bought these succulents and planted them in a vintage zinc garden sieve. Now they are flowering. My balcony is like a little greenhouse: I can grow aubergines & other plants that usually need to be under glass. #londongarden #may #plants #succulents in the garden
Lemon drizzle cake. The trick is not to stint on t Lemon drizzle cake. The trick is not to stint on the citrus. I used 7: 2 Italian lemons (from Lidl):some ordinary lemons and some limes (18p) at Lidl. Don’t be afraid to mix and match your citrus. I also used buttermilk from @fenfarmdairy in Suffolk from their honesty shop. Last night we ate it still warm from the oven. #cake #lemondrizzle #homebaking #citrus #buttermilk
A Simple tomato, goats cheese and basil salad, spa A Simple tomato, goats cheese and basil salad, spanking fresh asparagus / fried in olive oil, season, then add a little boiling water, not too much, put on the lid, dressed with lemon zest & Parmesan, @fenfarmdairy baron bigod cheese, good bread. This is how I like to eat. Claire’s plates found at the beccles brocante. #suffolk #suffolkfood #supper #dinnerwithfriends  #vintageplates
Can’t wait to see what they will be like when th Can’t wait to see what they will be like when they are fired. All my favourite themes: gingham and scallops. Thanks to @clairebelljar for a wonderful weekend and pottery workshop. Such fun! #workingwithyourhands #playtime #creativity #ceramics #pottery #suffolk
Making plates with talented potter & old South Ham Making plates with talented potter & old South Hampstead girl @clairebelljar in Suffolk. She has the most beautiful house I’ve ever seen. Such a joy to be reunited with her. #friendsreunited #makers #potters #scalloped #wildflowers #cowparsley #pottery
Another budget gourmet recipe, the Sicilian capona Another budget gourmet recipe, the Sicilian caponata, which is like a more interesting ratatouille, in which you add capers, olives & vinegar. £2.50p. I was asked to develop a series of recipes which were delicious enough to serve at a dinner party but also cheap. I shopped at Lidl. #costoflivingcrisis #budgetgourmet #recipe #vegetarian #vegan #lidluk
Mackerel pâté, a recipe that cost under £2.50. Mackerel pâté, a recipe that cost under £2.50. Lemon & herb smoked mackerel fillets from @lidl (take off skin)3 big scoops creme fraiche from Lidl and juice of half a lemon. Blend. Plenty of black pepper. Serve with bread. #budgetgourmet #costoflivingcrisis #eatorheat
Just wrote a very personal piece for @hamandhigh o Just wrote a very personal piece for @hamandhigh on my decade as a single parent on benefits, how I learned to cook & how things are so much harder now because not only are ingredients pricier but the cost of cooking them is too. 3 budget gourmet meals serving 4, for £2.50 each. #costoflivingcrisis #budgetgourmet #povertyshame #singleparents #foodblogger
Easter Sunday. Daffodil skeletons. Easter Sunday. Daffodil skeletons.
Load More... Follow on Instagram

Archives

Copyright © 2022 msmarmitelover